Negation problems.

[Tehrag]

I have noticed that many brawls follow a trend of having negations that negate negations and according to the show, I see no way that anyone could ever negate a negation.  In my opinion this is something that should not happen and I was wondering what others thought.  It is true that negating a negation may help you to win a brawl but I don't see how you can negate or reflect something that is not hitting you.

Also, with the use of reflections I think they should only be allowed to effect things that were used to effect your bakugan specifically and only ability cards not gate cards.

Anyway, to anyone who reads this, I ask that you really think about the way that the game should work and be open minded.

[Silver Krawler]

Jan 5, 2015 14:42:20 GMT -5 Tehrag said:

I have noticed that many brawls follow a trend of having negations that negate negations and according to the show, I see no way that anyone could ever negate a negation.  In my opinion this is something that should not happen and I was wondering what others thought.  It is true that negating a negation may help you to win a brawl but I don't see how you can negate or reflect something that is not hitting you.

Also, with the use of reflections I think they should only be allowed to effect things that were used to effect your bakugan specifically and only ability cards not gate cards.

Anyway, to anyone who reads this, I ask that you really think about the way that the game should work and be open minded.

First, I'd like to say thay this site is independent and we have our own constituted rules. Think about it. If you are prevented from using an item, and you negate, if your opponent can't negate your negation, wont it be unfair to them. If we are to follow what you said, the rule that says always give your opponent a chance to counter will be defiled. Also, the rule that prohibits the prevention of counters will be defiled because you'll be indirectly preventing them from countering. I dont see anything bad with negating a negation. Besides, a negation affects the item it is negating, so negating that negation will be fair because we all have rights to keep our effects active as long as we have the limit to do so.

And yes, I agree with the reflection aspect. But it isn't new; we have been following the principle of reflection. I dont agree with your last paragraph though. With your proposition, it means that if I use a Gate Card, my opponent can't reflect it, right? Won't it be unfair? Ask yoursf this: what is a reflection? If we were to do as you've said, then we can't use Gate Card effects against our opponents and by doing this, we are limited with negations. And like I said earlier, reflections will be prevented and the rules prohibits it. These rules have been established and we must follow them. Independency.

[Tristan Noleras]

Jan 5, 2015 14:42:20 GMT -5 Tehrag said:

I have noticed that many brawls follow a trend of having negations that negate negations and according to the show, I see no way that anyone could ever negate a negation.  In my opinion this is something that should not happen and I was wondering what others thought.  It is true that negating a negation may help you to win a brawl but I don't see how you can negate or reflect something that is not hitting you.

Also, with the use of reflections I think they should only be allowed to effect things that were used to effect your bakugan specifically and only ability cards not gate cards.

Anyway, to anyone who reads this, I ask that you really think about the way that the game should work and be open minded.

All opinions aside, be aware that these rules were implemented with the intention of creating a fair playing field. This is not the only site that has done this. I have been on many Bakugan sites that have allowed such things to occur. What you're speaking of would make battling on every site completely broken and unplayable. There would be no system of battling based on your point of view.

Silver makes a good point. This is not the show. We do not have to follow everything that goes on in the show just like Yugioh doesn't include everything that the show does in real life. Since you mentioned that, picture this. Have you ever noticed that whenever someone in the show uses a card that prevents their opponent from playing abilities, you will most likely not see them able to do anything about it. One of the worst offenders of this is Water Refrain, and I'm sure you're all familiar with that. According to what I've seen of that effect, nothing can be done about it. Imagine if we adopted that and said that if someone prevents you from doing something, you can't do anything about it. That wouldn't be very fun right?

If you believe that negating a negation shouldn't happen, then how do you think it should work? Could you come up with a fair disposition for the usage of that effect? Why shouldn't I be allowed to negate your negation? This brings another good example. There were Bakugan that had abilities that not only negated cards, but prevented the opponent from using abilities. I guess I lose automatically if someone used that against me, right? You said I shouldn't be able to negate a negation, so because every ability in the anime specifically counters abilities, I instantly lose once my opponent plays that ability because I'm not supposed to be able to negate it nor will I be able to play anything. This is what I mean by that making this entire game unplayable. Many aspects of the show would create instant win situations that would kill off the rest of the community. That is why you have ban lists in Yugioh to prevent unfair cards like Thousand-Eyes Restrict and Chaos Emperor Dragon from dominating the game, and Pokemon banned so competitive battling isn't ruined due to the presence of such things like Mega Rayquaza (who is hilariously broken).

An effect doesn't have to hit you in order to negate it; however, it will have to if you plan to reflect it. I agree with your statement on reflections until you said you shouldn't be able to use it against gate cards. I think Silver summed up why there is a disagreement. If I were you to use the basis of your argument and refer to the show, I would direct you straight to Coredem's Change Exia ability, which has a reflection targeting the gate card.